I’m new to Torque customization, so forgive me if I missed anything obvious. I have been wrestling with retrieving cylinder specific misfire information from my ’03 Ford F-150. I have searched this and other forums and it appears that this is problematic for many users (search “Ford misfire” in this forum and you will see many posts on this topic).

My Setup:
-OBDLink MX,
-TorquePro 1.8.158 running on an Anrdoid tablet

I tried the Ford Preloaded Extended PIDs but they do not work for my ’03 Ford as they use Mode 22 (I think Mode 22 is only applicable for model year ’06 and later). My ’03 uses OBD Mode 06.

I have configured a custom PID:

PID: 065301 (Mode 06, TID 53, CID 01 for cylinder 1)
Name: Misfire, Cylinder 1
Min Val: 0
Max Val: 1000
Scale: x1
Unit: (blank)
Equation: (C*256)+D
Header: (blank)

I received a response, but instead of a single line response for cylinder #1, I received a response for all eight cylinders:

COMMAND:
065301

RESPONSE:
46530100003D01
46530200003D01
46530300513D01
46530400003D01
46530500003D01
46530600003D01
46530700003D01
46530800003D01

Unfortunately, it turns out the variables C and D are evaluated for the last line in the response only (cylinder 8). To verify that the variables were for the last line, I updated the custom PID with the following equation (just so I could see all the byte assignments):

Updated Equation: A+B+C+D+E+F+G

Using the equation above, I was able to verify the values equated to the last line of the multi-line response (note the “08” in variable B):

A=0x53
B=0x08
C=0x00
D=0x00
E=0x3D
F=0x01
G=-1 (beyond the number of bytes in the last line of the response…this was expected)

Observations:

After hours of debugging, it appears that my ’03 Ford provides responses for all eight cylinders whenever ANY “0653…” command is given. I could not find any command to limit the response to a single cylinder’s info.

It seems like Torque is only expecting 6 bytes in the response. Because of this, it only retains the last 6 bytes received.

Questions:

Is it possible to specify the number of bytes to capture in the response (in this case 6×8=48)? If this were possible, this would allow me to capture all eight lines and modify the equations accordingly. If not, this seems like a good feature to have for custom PIDs…

Is there any other way to capture/access all lines of a response in a multi-line response?

I saw some information on changing flow control in the HW, but I am not sure that is the right path to take. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Steve

PS: I realize Cylinder #3 (0051 value) is likely where my trouble is. This post is focused at improving my ability to monitor/diagnose with Torque-Pro.

Hi,

I think I understand the question—

RX variable addressing works perfectly for single line responses (6 bytes, not including header). For example, I issued the following commands:

Command Response
065000 46500000000439
065400 46540000A3D300
065500 46550000200439
065600 46560021830FA0

All variable addressing was exactly as expected.

However, I found another example of multiple lines being returned:

Command:
061011 (Bank 1 switch-ratio and max. limit)

Response:
46101100000021 (Bank 1 value, denoted by “11” in byte 2)
46102100000021 (Bank 2 value, denoted by “21” in byte 2)

For this command, RX variable addressing worked, but only for the last line in the response, just like the misfire command.

Observation:
Where multiple component IDs exist for a Mode 06 TID (e.g. Command 0653xx and 0610xx), Ford appears to return values for ALL Component IDs, even though a single ID xx is specified in the command.

It looks like a new field to support “response length” in user defined PIDs may be needed to overcome this problem.

Any thoughts?

Steve

Thank you for your quick responses. Sounds like I am not alone in this. If Torque could capture all the responses returned, it may go a long way to solving many of the early model Ford Mode 06 issues people are having.

I’m showing my ignorance here about what to do next….

Is this a “new feature request” that I should submit?

Are you involved with the software development? or just an active helpful party in the forum?

One follow-up on the multi-line response issue—

I see some info in this thread https://torque-bhp.com/forums/?wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=6191.0 that talks about modifying the flow control settings on the OBDLink MX hardware to capture multi-line messages.

Do you see any value in experimenting with the types of changes being suggested? Since I am not familiar with the series of commands being issued, this may take me a while to figure out.

Thanks,
Steve

Thank you for all your help and quick responses. I looked up the commands in the STN1100 programming guide and you are exactly correct—the commands are for CAN.

So, I guess I will submit a feature request.

I will also try posting another message to this (and possibly scantool.net) forum focusing the discussion on multi-line response messages, rather than Ford Mode 06 misfire PIDs.

Thanks again.

Steve

I’m not sure….are you asking if the TorqueScan screen (with the green bars and updating information) is showing any results with “FExxxx” for my custom PIDs? If so, no….but here’s what I did:

I loaded up TorqueScan—ran it and it essentially showed me (incorrect) but real values for Cylinders 1 & 2 (I programmed custom PIDs 065301 and 065302 for these measurements). Because I know the program is really only seeing cylinder 8, the values being displayed are incorrect.

I could not find any way to see the actual response or any detailed information—it just showed me the values for cylinder 8 on the screen.

Steve

Thanks. I think I found the discussion you were referencing. https://torque-bhp.com/forums/?wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=7106.1

In the discussion, the following is included:
Torque will now store the extra replies for your ECU.

It works great! After setting up the equations to get the desired units, it works perfectly for the handful of PIDs I’ve been wanting to log for the 2nd bank. There seems to be a 1 cycle lag in the data, but that’s easy to account for when analyzing logs. Thank you so much!

I will try to determine the FExxxxx responses using TorqueScan, but I am having some difficulty capturing logs ….when the scan completes, no file is available for emailing. Other have noted the same behavior.

While I am doing this, I noted an interesting comment in the above mentioned discussion indicating using the diagnostic start and stop commands:

In the diagnostic start command, put:
ATSH7DF\nATCRA7EA (or whichever ECU it is you want)

and the stop command, which is important to also have:
ATSH7DF\nATCRA (note the missing 7Ex)

If I understand this correctly, it is essentially setting up a filter used by the receiver for capturing select data. Unfortunately, it appears that the ATCRA command only applies to CAN.

Questions (I am really stretching the limit of my understanding here):

• Can the OBD ATSH, or ATSA commands (described in the STN1100 programming manual, page 6) be used in the same manner for my J1850 vehicle?
• Could changing the ELM327 Programmable Parameter 02 (Allow Long Messages) have any value? or does TorquePro only capture the last 6 bytes, no matter whether they came in one or eight individual messages?

Steve

Bump for Ian’s attention.

@s_tooz_123

Reviewing your posts, I think there ARE a couple of points you are missing.

First, I’m not sure where the opinion came from that Mode 2 is only applicable for model years ’06 and later. While it is true that ‘FORD’ does not seem to make individual misfire counts available through Mode ‘2’ on your vehicle (OR mine for that matter), for sure plenty of Torque’s preloaded extended PIDs should work. The problem is there is VERY LITTLE standardization in extended PIDs between vehicle manufacturers. In fact, I have found that there are OBDII PID assignment ‘differences’ between like Ford year models assembled in different plants. You practically have to ‘SCAN’ the PCM to determine which ones respond on your vehicle – THEN find out what they are. (But that PROBLEM for another thread)

Secondly: And more important (I have no expertise on the communications questions you raise) but I think you’re treating ‘TestID’ and ‘CompletionID’ as a Hex PID is a complete mis-application that will only lead you into farther trouble. Mode ‘6’ instructs the PCM to execute a pre-defined (and I think mandated standard) test. The ‘RESULT’ is ‘coded’ (again I think into mandated standard) ‘completion codes’ and data. From what I see, I think the Mode ‘6’ data you are chasing is NOT what you want anyway. According to (page 11 of 95) of the Motorcraft OBDII Theory of Operation Manual for your vehicle ( http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/obdsm307.pdf ) TID 53 is NOT EVEN for individual cylinder misfire “COUNTS”. According to the referenced manual page description (for J1850), Test ID 53 returns “Cylinder-specific misfire and catalyst damage threshold misfire rate (either cat damage or emission threshold) (Updated when DTC is set or clears) _in percent_ when multiplied by 0.000015.

Thirdly: Why do you not use “TEST RESULTS” from the main Torque Pro page. The App reads Mode 06 data, parses it out and formats it for you. On my vehicle this report gives misfire counts by individual cylinder.

Just a thought.

The Motorcraft OBDII Theory manual for other year models are available for free from https://www.motorcraftservice.com/freeresources/obd

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Nice article in motor dot com magazine. And I agree with the value of the Mode 6 reports. Use them regularly myself. Mode 6 Misfire Report on my vehicle mirrors that in the Motorcraft OBDII Theory of Operation Manual for both mine and your vehicle. Mode 6 Test Results works flawlessly on my 2004 F150 5.4L Triton. Given the fact page 11 of 95 are identical in the 2003 and 2004 manual downloads – I’m muffed as to why Torque wouldn’t read and format your Mode six report – given adequate time (Mine takes a little while to complete). And I can think of no logical reason for OBD delaying, holding up, or being unable to produce the report in response to Torque’s request.

You might be able to derive benefit from some of my research posted at: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1104362-5-4-randomly-misfiring-4.html#post17322257 . It is ALL from Mode 2. But EVEN one “Distance Driven with MIL OFF” does NOT work on my vehicle – but does on one of my friends 2005 F150 of exact configuration as mine! I agree the realization that PID assignments are not consistent even among like years & models of the same manufacturer makes one’s head hurt. SO, but I temper my statements of the first paragraph with that fact.

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54371019

Very informative stuff. Proves there’s a lot more stuff I don’t know than there is what I do know. FORTUNATELY (for Me, but not you) I did a full Torque Scan back when the Plug-in Torque Scan WORKED and you could access the scan results. For this reason, I concentrated on sorting out WHAT each PID that responded represented and what it meant. (There are about 450 PIDs that respond on my vehicle – numerous ones consisting of flags – totaling about 560 PIDs that are meaningful).

Numerous forum members have tried to get Torque Scan fixed (which quit working after an update) to no avail: See: https://torque-bhp.com/forums/?wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=8376.0l. Perhaps you can help in this regard.

Meanwhile a very kind & smart forum member here came up with a simple Android SCAN App that is simple but does a great job. Even allows you to specify the Mode and start/end range. It has lots of flexibility and creates a log file of responses that can be downloaded to your computer. I should not duplicate it without his express permission, but you can check with member ‘cintakc’ and maybe he will arrange for you to have copy. It works GREAT.

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