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Torque » Torque OBD ECU Scanner » Torque Discussion / Ideas » Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?

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Author Topic: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 428
Post Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: May 28, 2015 (GMT)

I have a set up Torque Pro screen with gauges to actively monitor Variable Cam Timing system operations on my Ford 5.4L 3v engine. Of particular interest is CAMERRR – apparently leading to P0022 (Over Retard – Bank 2) code. CAMERR swings above and below zero (+ or -) degrees showing error relative to the PCM’s requested advance or retard (RCAM) (in Crankshaft Degrees), as “commanded” by the PCM’s Duty Cycle Command to the VCT Solenoids (CAMDCR).

This all appears pretty normal. A delay in cam adjusting to desired retard is observed by swings above or below zero as the cam system responds to solenoid duty cycle, with the mean average being ZERO. But I have not been able to determine WHY or WHEN or WHAT condition results in a DTC P0022 being triggered. If the CAMERRR column of a Troque Pro Track Log is “summed”, it does, generally, come out positive. BUT how much accumulation either way is tolerable?

I would like to create a custom gauge to show cumulative error – by summing each scan of Mode 22 PID # 16CE over the run cycle. But I need a “variable” in which to accumulate all of the “+”, “-” results for displaying on a custom gauge (ie: ERRTOT). There must be some magic number where the PCM decides, “Over Retarded” or “Over Advanced”, based on CAMERRR accumulation getting too positive or too negative.

Any guidance or ideas would be appreciated.

[ on the screen VCTENA is a Flag maintained by the PCM indicating “conditions correct for variable cam timing”. Too many errors shuts it OFF for the remainder of the current run cycle, but does NOT set the DTC. LOAD is engine load. VCT?5 is a PID I have figured out is count of “Run Cycles since the last MIL reset ]

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moreause
Member
Posts: 509
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: May 29, 2015 (GMT)

i just don’t know how to do it

but anyway that would probably not do any good

since the variable size would vary depending torque cycle speed

like if you do 1 sensor sweep per seconde the value would increase by that value per second

i you do it 10 times a second because you record less stuff the value would increase 10 time faster

not realy help full to check for a trigger point

you would ne to sum ON time over a certain level…but i still don’t know how to do it

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 428
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: May 30, 2015 (GMT)

@moreause

I agree that the “numeric value” of an accumulation of all positive and negative “CAMERRR” responses – would be somewhat dependent on sample frequency, and thus inaccurate. I agree, the value would not “match” an accumulation maintained by the PCM (IF that’s what it is doing). However, that is no different from running a sum on “CAMERRR” column of the Track Log Excel spreadsheet. Over a 30 minute LOG run, it may be 3,000 or 4,000+. (this only tells me the PCM’s camshaft position ERROR samples – in crankshaft degrees – were positive more frequently than they were negative.

My gauge normally stays at or near ZERO. However, I can – [by slamming the accelerator to the floor and letting off repeatedly] cause CAMERRR to bounce “+” and “-” by as much as 80 – 90 degrees. Doing this enough times will cause a CEL. (Also note on the screenshot, CAMERRR “highest value” -this run cycle – has been 50.8º, “lowest value” -10.8º). However, I have seen as many as 33 Run Cycles (VCT?5) before a CEL pops up (P0022 DTC).

Being able to display / monitor accumulated sum of CAMERRR, although not an absolute numerical reading of anything, would be a meaningful diagnostic indication. The reading should stay at or near zero, otherwise the variable cams are not responding equally to “Advance” command and “Retard” command. I assume this is abnormal. I don’t know how else the PCM could determine “over retarded” condition when CAMERRR runs normally at or near zero.

I have considered trying to STUFF a sum into an “unused” PID number in the PCM for a variable with a “write” mode command – But afraid I might hit the accelerator, or CRASH the PCM!!!! Ha

Still would like to be able to add CAMERRRs to an environment variable or somewhere. But, don’t think it can be one in Torque. I’ll keep ‘hacking’ for other parameters relating to the VCT system.

Thanks for your response.

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dfitzc1500
Member
Posts: 2
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: June 1, 2015 (GMT)

I’ve been looking for these pids for almost a year. how did you add them or where did you find them?

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2862
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: June 1, 2015 (GMT)

You might try creating two custom pids to
add the value of interest or maybe just
create a histogram display type to visually
watch the distribution over time.

PID No. 1 = Val{PID No. 2} + [2216CE]
PID No. 2 = Val{PID No. 1}

Use the pid long names exactly within the
braces.

Mode and PID: blank
Name: PID No. 1
Minimum: 0.0
Maximum: 100.0
Scale factor: x1
Unit type: Error
Equation: Val{PID No. 2}+[2216CE]
OBD Header: blank

Mode and PID: blank
Name: PID No. 2
Minimum: 0.0
Maximum: 100.0
Scale factor: x1
Unit type: Error
Equation: Val{PID No. 1}
OBD Header: blank

Edit:

Oil pump pressure related
maybe? (Below minimum
spec?)

2008 Ford F150, P0012 & P0022 codes: h ttp://youtu.be/ufj-7YNGLtk

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 428
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: June 1, 2015 (GMT)

Good idea @Capp777. Histogram is one I admit I have not played with. I have already added one to my screen to watch on the next drive cycle.

Thanks

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F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 428
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: June 1, 2015 (GMT)

@dfitzc1500

I found these (and other useful) PIDs by running a FULL “Torque Scan” (takes about 2 1/2 HOURS) on my Truck, and uploading it to my computer. Then I have extensively searched the internet on many HEX PID #’s from that list – (at least they are PID’s that RESPOND to a Torque query). I finally hit on one for the Valve Timing system and that lead me to the others. Then I added them as Custom PID’s in Torque and ran several Torque Log files on RAW DATA from them [using the straight raw formula “(A*256)+B”. Uploading that to EXCEL and playing with various formulas on the PID values, I was able to narrow down what they were for and create formulas that make gauges give reasonable results. (It’s literally like looking for a needle in a hay stack when you don’t even know what the needle looks like).

I will gladly provide PID info and settings – BUT PLEASE NOTE that this is for a 2004 Ford F150 with a 5.4L Triton (3 valve) engine. I have found there is WIDE variation in PIDs and PCM programming – even within like vehicles brands and models. And from your handle – I wonder if your vehicle might be GM, and if so, I have no idea if these PIDs – or their formulas would be relevant. If Torque Scan doesn’t include response from them – they are of no use. You can use the TEST button on any Custom Pid to see what its response looks like.

ON A 2004 Ford 5.4L 3v ENGINE – the relevant PIDs / formulas for the gauges in my previous post are:

VCTENA – Hex “16B1” = a Flag indicating “Conditions correct to enable variable valve timing” Response is one byte, bit 5 : 1=ON/ 0=OFF

OBD Mode and PID = 2216B1
Long Name = VCT Control Circuit Monitor
Short Name= VCTENA
Min = 0, Max =1, Scale factor x1
Unit type ON/OFF
Equation= {A:5}
Header/Diag Start/Diag Stop = -blank-

RCAM – Hex “16CD” = “Request Cam Retard in crankshaft degrees [twice Cam rotation degrees]”, response is two bytes signed binary “. This is the calculated retard the PCM desires to establish – from the BASE cam position – {which is probably advanced a few degrees, but I have not been able to determine how much. Thus my guage is simply shows REQUESTED RETARD – from base position of ZERO.]

OBD Mode and PID = 2216CD
Long Name = Requested CAM Retard
Short Name= RCAM
Min = 0, Max =90, Scale factor x1
Unit type= Cks Degº
Equation= ((Signed(A)*256)+B)/10
Header= 7E0
Diag Start/Diag Stop = -blank-

CAMDCR – Hex “16CF” = “VCT Solenoid Commanded Duty Cycle”, response is two bytes binary in percent duty cycle. This is the square wave duty cycle sent to the VCT Solenoids where approximately 50% holds phasers static in their present position, > 50% increases retard, < 50% reduces retard, and 0% applies maximum oil flow to the default advance position. OBD Mode and PID = 2216CF Long Name = CAM Duty Cycle Requested Short Name= CAMDCR Min = 0, Max =100, Scale factor x1 Unit type= % Equation= ((A)*256)+B)*(100/32767) Header/Diag Start/Diag Stop = -blank- CAMERRR – Hex “16CE” = “-Cam Error Retard”, response is two bytes binary, This is apparently the sum of the error of both camshafts, measured in camshaft Degº – 90 deg to + 90 degº (sum of both banks if both cams were at max err). Apparently, the ECU adds the cam error in degrees for bank 1 and bank 2 ????. I’ve seen CAMERRR degrees exceed 60, but have never seen RCAM exceed about 84-85º. However the ECU can report DTCs for bank1 (P0021) and bank 2 (P0022) separately. I guess it doesn’t matter as far as CAMERRR is concerned!!! One or the other CAM is not responding to RCAM properly, or CAMERRR would be zero. OBD Mode and PID = 2216CE Long Name = CAM Error Retard Short Name= CAMERRR Min = -60, Max = 60, Scale factor x1 Unit type= Cam Degº Equation= ((Signed(A)*256)+B)/5 Header/Diag Start/Diag Stop = -blank- VTC?5 – Hex “16DC” = A temporary parameter name for a fifth parameter ID that I THOUGHT was related to the valve timing system. TURNS OUT – it is a two byte binary counter of “RUN CYCLES” since the last CEL RESET” So it’s nevertheless very useful. OBD Mode and PID = 2216DC Long Name = RUN CYCLES since CEL Reset – (or whatever you like) Short Name= RCSCELR (or whatever you like) Min = 0, Max = 65535, Scale factor x1 Unit type= CNT Equation= (A*256)+B Header/Diag Start/Diag Stop = -blank- I’ve isolated a number of others, for the Transmission, EVAP system, Charge Motion Control (unique to the 5.4), ABS system, Temperatures and soforth. I am putting them into a spreadsheet, but unfortunately – they may not be useful to other type vehicles. I have noticed the 1600 series PID’s are largely absent in other models – even within the Ford lineup. ——- 54371019

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 428
Post S O L V E D . Thanks to Capp777
on: June 3, 2015 (GMT)

Y E S…Y O U…C A N – create and access a variable in Torque Pro.

Thank you very much @Capp777. :) Once again – you are absolutely correct, just as you were in solving my question in http://torque-bhp.com/forums/?wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=5657.0

Your suggestion in message No.5 of this thread works “FLAWLESSLY”. PID No.2 (I used different variable names) accumulates the positive and negative (signed) values of CAMERRR [2216CE]. You can observe it increase and decrease as the instantaneous gauge (CAMERRR) swings above or below zero. I am playing with various display configurations to find the most meaningful visual. A half dial gauge seems best so far – as the specific numeric value (accumulation of camshaft or crankshaft degrees error) is not too meaningful a value. What is – is when the centered gauge begins to shift to the right or left because CAMERRR is running un-equally above and below ZERO.

Your suggestion of using a Histogram did ALSO work. However, the CENTER (ZERO) point is not marked as clearly as the half dial, making it less obvious the accumulation is above or below zero.

I will add (edit) a Screenshot to this post when I work out the best gauge display.

Thanks Again. F-150Torqued

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dfitzc1500
Member
Posts: 2
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: November 13, 2015 (GMT)

I’m trying to set up the cam timing pids and also some Intake Runner Control pids and I’m sorry if this is a silly question but what is a “signed A”?

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2862
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: November 13, 2015 (GMT)

The most significant bit is used to signal
a positive or negative integer value…

Example:

A normal byte represents 0 to 255.

A signed byte represents -128 to 127.

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 428
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: December 1, 2015 (GMT)

@ dfitzc1500

@Capp777 (as always) provided a perfectly correct answer to your question. I have found many custom pids that produce responses that are positive / negative values, and have had my share of trouble “reconciling” how to structure formulas using the Signed() function when dealing with a two byte response. I get an error when they look algebraically correct to me and they look funny to me when they work on a two byte value.

I have also done a bunch of work on both variable cam timing pids and the IMRC pids on my ’04 Ford F150 5.4L 3 valve. It may not benefit you directly as I still assume, by your handle, that you are dealing with a GM product. But I would be happy to share the How/What I have learned if it will help advance your efforts. I have set up a personal email contact account on my mail server for you at norris-Torque.dfitzc1500@devoll.com , if you care to PM me.

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Keshka
Member
Posts: 2
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: August 18, 2017 (GMT)

F-150Torqued;

the 5.4 triton has one variable cam and control valve for each head as well as a cam position sensor for each. Have you been able to find the pids for these?

I am trying to solve some VCT problems with my f150 and would like to be able to compare actual cam angle vs requested.

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 428
Post Re: Can I Create/Access a VARIABLE in Torque Pro for a Custom PID/gauge?
on: August 18, 2017 (GMT)

@keshka

Yes I found all the PIDs for the VVT system. I tried to post a dashboard screenshot, all the PID info for all Ford 5.4 users, including a link to a CSV file – but I guess I ‘busted’ the Forum. ALL my posts in this thread ‘disappeared’. Guess it was too large or I been BANNED!!

You can go to this website and get the info: (hopefully I can post thin link).

https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-repair-guide-5-4-cam-phaser-tick-knock-sound-141266/index304/#post5133357

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