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Author Topic: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDs
Capp777
Member
Posts: 2994
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 15, 2015 (GMT)

Does the new equation match
as it heats up?

Once we get an accurate voltage
then will use your table function
for temperature equation.

Edit:

EGT Poly

Equation:

(0.000000071*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)))
-(0.0001*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)))+(0.4004*((A*256)+B))-317.58

Units: °C

Equation continues on second line.

Edited due to parser changes.

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

The equation with 1/1016 works pretty well. I ran a couple monitors one with the 1/1016 and another with (((a*256)+b)*.000976753) The 2 equations ran pretty darn close to each other and the fluke. It’s a little hard to monitor both the Fluke and Torque for comparison sake, plus I think the OBD sample rate and human processing/switching may throw things off a bit. Sometimes I found the .000976753 to be spot on and other times I found the 1/1016 to be spot on. I came up with the .0976xxx number by taking the max voltage and dividing it by the max value 13FF or 5119 decimal. 13FF was the value returned when the sensor was unplugged. using the 1/1016 would work pretty well except that it would eventually read slightly higher than the 5v Vref. I’ll give that equation you included in your last post a try next. I think I’ll try it with both of the multipliers stated here and see how it goes. After that I’ll need some way to measure the actual temperature and compare it to our calculated temperature.. not real sure how I’m going to accomplish that.

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2994
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Thanks for the update.

You probably have to adjust the -317.58
up or down to match ambient with cold
soaked engine.

MPD56
Member
Posts: 276
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

I bought a MX from Amazon and it came with OBDLink. Don’t like that App but I notice that it has the correct PID for Fuel Rate (G/H) and instant MPG. Anyone know how I can get the information of these PID from OBDLink to make a custom PID for Torque Pro?

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

MPD I think the task of finding some additional PIDS would be a welcomed distraction.. I’ll go see if I can locate those PIDs for you.

CAP Help if you can I feel like maybe I’ve gone way off the rails…

I’m still struggling with coming up with an equation that makes sense for the EGT sensor. Part of my difficulty is that I really don’t know what this sensor is.. It reads 200ohm at 0c Some of the tables I’ve found for 100ohm platinum RTDs seem to line up pretty closely when I double the resistance column. I took another sensor and froze it, then stuck it in the oven for a while to get some resistance values off from it at different temps. trying to identify it. The voltage values coming out of the ECU seem likely to be the voltage drop across the sensor which from there I should be able to get resistance and then run that through an equation to get temperature. TBH the equations involved in this are making me scratch my head.. I’m no mathematician that’s for sure.

Degrees C, Ohms, method
0 200.8 in ice water
20.5 216.6 on counter – Degrees from IR gun on probe
22 217 air temp – Degrees from IR gun on probe
41 233 below values from Oven, degrees C from digital thermometer
84 265.9
94 269.7
101 273.5
111 278.4
136 290.3
142 295
142 296.5
133 295.9

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2994
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Are you saying the other equation
did not work?

While resistance values are useful for
checking the sensor off the vehicle, I
believe its voltage at various temperatures
is needed for an equation.

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

I believe 22f45e is fuel rate
(A*256)+b will get you decimal output for that pid. I’m not sure of the units. Could it be liters per hour x 100? Just a Guess..

I think what you are looking for would have to be calculated from speed and fuel rate?

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2994
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Wiki shows fuel rate as L/hr (015E)
with an equation…

((A*256)+B)*(1/20) ?

Since your 6.7L seems to mimic these at 22F4xx
I agree with the previous post.

Edit:

MPG = MPH / GPH ?

MPD56
Member
Posts: 276
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Thanks for the info, I’ll try it.

I believe that the EGT sensors are thermsistors. I’ll see about the information when I get home.

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Hey Cap, Did I mess up your equation when I entered it into Excel? I’m trying to see how the equation scales with some recorded values.

Excel Equation
M32 = Decimal Value
=0.000000071*(M32*M32*M32)-(0.0001*(M32*M32))+(0.4004*M32)-317.58

Equation Provided by Cap
0.000000071*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B))-(0.0001*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)))+(0.4004*((A*256)+B))-317.58

When I Plugged in the equation into torque it’s displaying -28.3c for a value of 03 1B we’re going out for a bit I’ll try to record some more readings when we go out.

Thanks for all your help thus far. These Polynomial’s are beyond me at the moment. I haven’t used this stuff since I got out of school ~20 yrs ago!

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2994
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Equation was based upon the table…

31b 795/1016=0.782v

where 0.84v = 0°C
where 0.73v = -40°C

I still suggest adjusting offset (-317.58)
to match your ambient temperature when

Im hoping the rest of the calibration will
match the published response.

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

MPD are there any other PIDs that would be helpful if I found them?

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Cap – do you think that table is suspect?

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2994
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

When you recorded values briefly
after starting the voltages/temperatures
almost believeable?

Once you get the equation adjusted to match
ambient the table might still be valid across its
span.

I noticed in the 7.3 threads how the sensors
from vehicle to vehicle varied a bit so I wouldn’t
be surprised if it doesnt match exactly (zero shift).

Edit:

Your posted table appears to match the
EGT data listed in a Ford OBD Summary document
for the 6.7L… so its likely correct with a Vref
of 5.0 volts.

MPD56
Member
Posts: 276
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 16, 2015 (GMT)

Quote from gi1gamesh on May 16, 2015
MPD are there any other PIDs that would be helpful if I found them?

Thanks for the offer.

Cooling fan speed, not that I really need it, but I’ve been trying for so long to find it LOL.

My next thing on my wish list is to look at the MS-CAN.

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 18, 2015 (GMT)

Ok, I think I’ve got this mathematically correct and tested to values along the same curve as the Ford diag manual. What was really throwing me was a couple things.. First the Voltage from the ECU at the sensor is not 5v it’s 4.98 second the calculated internal resistance for what’s coming from the voltage divider is more like 1164.26 not 1kohm as described in the diag manual.

So if you want to use a Ford EGT sensor in the EGR Temp sensor location I would suggest using the following values. This is what worked for my ECU and the EGT sensor out of my exhaust relocated to the EGR block off plate/bung.

PID: 22055E
MIN 0
MAX 2000
scale x1
Unit C
(0.0004*(((1164.26*(((256*A)+B)*0.00097285))/(4.98-(((256*A)+B)*0.00097285)))*((1164.26*(((256*A)+B)*0.00097285))/(4.98-(((256*A)+B)*0.00097285)))))+(1.107*((1164.26*(((256*A)+B)*0.00097285))/(4.98-(((256*A)+B)*0.00097285))))-237.33

MPD56
Member
Posts: 276
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 18, 2015 (GMT)

Cool!!

Duh Silly Me. I finally figure out what you’re doing. It’s been 30 plus years since I took this math in school. I’ve been doing this for self interest and mind candy, the kids at work would challenge me more if they knew how much I forgot LOL. Capp777 has been a great help and resource; I wish he had a 6.7L.

Gilgamesh: I do thank you for your input, it is what makes a forum thread informative when member provides input. I hope you continue. As for what voltage at the sensor, I believe this is where Vref comes in to play, wouldn’t it?

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 18, 2015 (GMT)

MPD please feel free to share this info on the other forums you participate in. Could save folks a couple hundred dollars on a pyrometer if they choose to go the same way I went.

gi1gamesh
Member
Posts: 51
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 18, 2015 (GMT)

MPD is there a CSV of all the PIDS you’ve gathered for the 6.7 available for import? I’m not really sure what the process would be to import them either. If you are already familiar with this process that information would be helpful as well.

PS: I think I found your fan speed PID not positive on how to do the conversion on it yet though. Give PID 220702 a try and see what you think. I think I only got values of 0 when the truck was off and 9 – 12 at idle. I’ll have to do some more testing on this one to come up with what it is actually being output from this, though I’d assume it’s some form of RPM.

MPD56
Member
Posts: 276
 Re: Ford 6.7 Diesel PIDson: May 18, 2015 (GMT)

Quote from gi1gamesh on May 18, 2015
MPD please feel free to share this info on the other forums you participate in. Could save folks a couple hundred dollars on a pyrometer if they choose to go the same way I went.

Thanks

If I’m getting it right you have a programmer to use the EGR input to the PCM for the pre-turbo EGTs.?

FYI: On the Link below is a Plugin that a member has made. I’m import my own CSV file because I’m always playing around and I can custom the PIDs to my liking. eg. Names, Units. limits…etc.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1322804-torque-pro-ford-6-7l-extended-pids.html