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Torque » Torque OBD ECU Scanner » Torque Discussion / Ideas » Trans temp, IAT, and MAP

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Author Topic: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 1, 2014 (GMT)

just entered the new pedal formula now
I will update everything I have this morn

I think this is ‘more’ up to date :) let me know if it needs corrections or if you can tell me why it will not recognize the polynomials

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o296rtzsuj118ol/Michaels%201997%20Torque%20PID%20list%20alpha.xlsx

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 1, 2014 (GMT)

MJ:

Your spreadsheet entries for Baro27 and
Val{…} braces are incorrect.

The cell containing the polys are only
showing a partial piece of the equation
without expanding the cell’s width.

It also looked like the poly equations
were surrounded by quotes ” “.

Have you tried google searching
“percent delta cylinder” for info?

LOL… I am not sure what those pids actually
mean!

m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 1, 2014 (GMT)

excel will not accept the polys it gives a #name

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 1, 2014 (GMT)

MJ:

I noticed that some of the other equations
were not quoted. The quotes will have to
be removed before it will work in Torque
if copy and paste is used.

Have you tried formatting the cell as text
and not a number?

m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 1, 2014 (GMT)

that was my quotes attempt and then i decided that i was wasting time on the minutia rather then the meat of the matter

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 1, 2014 (GMT)

MJ:

Speaking of wasted time… I have tried
repeatedly to post pics unsuccessfully.

I subscribed to dropbox just for this
purpose on my phone but it still will
not post with the copied link to
clipboard. I have clicked the little
pic icon which positioned placeholders…
then pasted the link in between but
it still does not work.

Can you tell me what I am doing wrong
since you have been successful at posting
pictures?

I am beginning to think my forum account
has this feature turned off.

m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 2, 2014 (GMT)

ok try that. the ‘-‘ was creating the formula issue so I made the first character a ‘space’

I use photo’pail’ for images I can try a dropbox test image in this post

test

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbs6jkenx0vys7r/IMG_20140207_162123.jpg

ah they disabled the public folder thing and you have to find the link to create one in your account

How to use the Public folder.txt

The Public folder lets you easily share single files in your Dropbox. Any file you put in this folder gets its own Internet link that you can share with others — even non-Dropbox users!

Step 1: Drop a file into the Public folder.

Step 2: Right-click this file, then choose Dropbox > Copy Public Link. This copies an Internet link to your file that you can paste anywhere: emails, instant messages, blogs, etc.

That’s it! To share your file, just send the link to a friend.

Happy Dropboxing!

– The Dropbox Team

P.S. You can only link to actual files within your Public folder, not to folders. For help with sharing files visit [url=http://www.dropbox.com/help/16

]http://www.dropbox.com/help/16

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/257292638/IMG_20140224_180202.jpg

m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 2, 2014 (GMT)

LoL

big sketti pic

so you create a public folder here
https://www.dropbox.com/help/16/en
more specifically here https://www.dropbox.com/enable_public_folder

then you move image to the public folder, etc etc, use [ img ] tags done

aawlberninf350
Member
Posts: 4
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 2, 2014 (GMT)

Quote from Capp777 on March 1, 2014

MJ:

Have you tried google searching
“percent delta cylinder” for info?

LOL… I am not sure what those pids actually
mean!

Just FYI and general 7.3 background:

PERDELS is also called a cylinder contribution test. In a nutshell it measures the rotational velocity of the crank at idle and how much each cylinder contributes. A bad injector will add less velocity than the others (that’s the delta) and helps you ID the cuplrit.

Great thread btw! Kudos!

And I’ll throw this out: the Holy Grail of 7.3 tests is the “buzz test”. It fires all injectors simultaneously, then for a second each in numerical order. This tests the electrical side of the injectors. Weak or dead ones are easy to spot. But that’s an active manipulation of the PCM rather than a passive recording of data, so maybe it is not possible?

MJ – mind if I grab a copy of your PID excel file from photobucket?

m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 2, 2014 (GMT)

I have been updating the dropbox excel file, feel free to grab and use it. please post up any corrections or new info that I need to fix/add to it.

cargaugepro is able to run CCT and Buzz tests and KOER and KOEO using the same adapter so the ability is there but not currently used in Torque

my list as of the 1st of March 2014

Mode/PID: 221127
Long name: Baro1 OBS
Short name: Baro27
Min value: 0
Max value: 20
Scale: x1
Unit: Hz
Equation: A
Header: C410F1
comments: 21/02/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro2 OBS
Short name: Baro42
Min value: 0
Max value: 20
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/27.67985874
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro kpa OBS
Short name: Baro
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: kpa
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/4.01463133
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro inH2O OBS
Short name: Baro
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: inH2O
Equation: (A*256)+B
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: Boost OBS
Short name: Boost
Min value: 0
Max value: 60
Scale: x1
Unit: psi
Equation: ((((A*256)+B)*0.00109)-16.03)-Baro()
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: Boost OBS alt
Short name: Boost
Min value: 0
Max value: 60
Scale: x1
Unit: psi
Equation: ((((A*256)+B)*0.00109)-16.03)-Val{Baro 42 psia}
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 221445
Long name: Exhaust Back Pressure 7.3
Short name: EBP
Min value: 0
Max value: 75
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.03625)-6.6
Header: Auto
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IAT volt OBS
Short name: IATv
Min value: 0
Max value: 5
Scale: x1
Unit: V
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/13168
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IATf OBS
Short name: IATf
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00314)+193.34
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID 22114A
Long name: IATc OBS
Short name: IATc
Min value: -10
Max value: 30
Scale: x1
Unit: °C
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00174)+89.65
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID 22114A
Long name: IATc OBS poly
Short name: IATc
Min value: -10
Max value: 30
Scale: x1
Unit: °C
Equation: -0.00000000000196*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B))+(0.000000196*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)))+(-0.00774*((A*256)+B))+144
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP frequency OBS
Short name: MAPf
Min value: 100
Max value: 256
Scale: x1
Unit: Hz
Equation: ((A*256)+B)*0.00390625
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP OBS
Short name: MAP
Min value: 0
Max value: 50
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.00109)-16.03
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP kpa OBS
Short name: MAP
Min value: 0
Max value: 1000
Scale: x1
Unit: kpa
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.00752)-110.45
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT V OBS
Short name: Trans V
Min value: 0
Max value: 5
Scale: x1
Unit: V
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/13168
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT C OBS
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °C
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00189)+95.35
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT f OBS poly
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: -0.00000000000194*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B))+(0.0000002*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)))+(-0.0096*((A*256)+B))+259.5
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT f OBS
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00360)+212.98
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT f OBS poly
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: -0.00000000000194*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B))+(0.0000002*(((A*256)+B)*((A*256)+B)))+(-0.0096*((A*256)+B))+259.5
Header: C410F1
comments: 24/02/2014

Mode/PID: 221340
Long name: Throttle pedal OBS
Short name: Throttle
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit:
Equation: (A*0.43860)+1.47
Header: C410F1
comments: 07/02/2014

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 2, 2014 (GMT)

MJ:

Thanks for the dropbox info… I will give
it a try from my phone.

FYI:

Quote from Capp777 on June 21, 2013

Torque uses a hidden folder on your
phone .torque/extendedpids/ for
csv files that you can create.

The first time you access the extended
pids in torque it creates a .csv that can
be used as a template.

Once you create a valid text file in this
folder it will be listed in the add predefined
pid list of choices.

I would love to use the pid editor to build
the pid file but I haven’t found a way to export.

Hope this helps…

End Quote.

Edit:

“cagenuts” ?

Your Val{Baro 42 psia} should be Val{Baro2 OBS}
to match your long name.

Edit2:

I have sent an email to Ian asking him
to add these to Torque to make it easier
for everyone.

m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 3, 2014 (GMT)

pic successful :)

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 3, 2014 (GMT)

Thanks again MJ for the info
on dropbox.

I’m guessing there are a lot of
users banging their chest trying
to figure that one out.

I had to use my windows laptop
to create the public folder before
my phone could see it.

That function wasnt available on
the phone only.

Again BIG THANKS!

MAFoElffen
Member
Posts: 27
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 3, 2014 (GMT)

Cap777–

“cagenuts”???
Yes, that was me.

::embarassed:: I’m terrible with names and nicknames. I can remember numbers and other such, but I admit and apologize that names are my kriptonite, my weakness.

I have 3 weeks until finals. 2 more weeks left of software projects and tutoring students. From next quarter on, I’ll be working on concurrent AAS’es in Programming & Database Management, Proficiency Cert for Web Programming and a BS in Computer Science… about 20 credits each quarter.

As you probably saw, I made M J’s data into an Access db file. It’s a draft at the moment. Yes, it makes sense to keep all the fields as text. (for us)

Got my truck running and everything in Torque is “working” as for test wise… including the Boost that was alluding me for a bit.

So now I can try to work out that formula for comparing Boost and EBP… A Ratio between the two. When I graph that data, I can see the relation between those… and I understand the real-world tie between the drive (turbine) and driven (compressor) forces. …at least in my head. LOL

Various experience and interests

MAFoElffen
Member
Posts: 27
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 3, 2014 (GMT)

I need to recheck what I have in my phone for the equation for TFT f OBS. I noticed that I was reading 65F in Torque, while my mechanical was reading 130F… Maybe I had another fat fingered.

That and IAT F just seems a bit low. Maybe I should check that against a regular anolog or IR thermometer.

Various experience and interests

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 4, 2014 (GMT)

Quote from MAFoElffen on March 3, 2014
Cap777–

“cagenuts”???
Yes, that was me.

::embarassed:: I’m terrible with names and nicknames. I can remember numbers and other such, but I admit and apologize that names are my kriptonite, my weakness.

I have 3 weeks until finals. 2 more weeks left of software projects and tutoring students. From next quarter on, I’ll be working on concurrent AAS’es in Programming & Database Management, Proficiency Cert for Web Programming and a BS in Computer Science… about 20 credits each quarter.

As you probably saw, I made M J’s data into an Access db file. It’s a draft at the moment. Yes, it makes sense to keep all the fields as text. (for us)

Got my truck running and everything in Torque is “working” as for test wise… including the Boost that was alluding me for a bit.

So now I can try to work out that formula for comparing Boost and EBP… A Ratio between the two. When I graph that data, I can see the relation between those… and I understand the real-world tie between the drive (turbine) and driven (compressor) forces. …at least in my head. LOL

End Quote.

No worries… I’ve been called worse names.

As for the linear temp equations… just like
I told cowmilker in earlier posts, draw a “S” and put
a line thru it. The line will only be accurate at
three points in the range and +/- 8 degrees 68%
of the time in its useful range.

The poly equations were created to match the temps
much closer. They are the final equations to use.

The linear equations helped to verify the polys
were in the ballpark until jschildm confirmed it
at two points.

Good luck with your studies.

jschildm
Member
Posts: 29
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 4, 2014 (GMT)

I have a couple more screen shots. The first is with the truck running down the road, and the second is KOEO. I haven’t messed with the EBP to zero it with the MAP in KOEO yet, and I didn’t have the Accel Position in there yet. If we don’t need snapshots anymore let me know and I will quit posting. I have just made a habit of getting one on my way home from work on Friday’s when I drive my truck.

Snapshot while driving

Snapshot with KOEO

Capp — It took me a little while to figure out there was only a “copy public link” button in the public folder in dropbox. I am still not sure I have it figured out doing it from my phone without opening dropbox in the browser on my phone in desktop mode and doing it that way. The app doesn’t have the “copy public link” button, or at least I couldn’t find it.

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 4, 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for the screenshots and dropbox info.
Without MJs post I would have still been wasting
time as I only downloaded the app to the
phone only.

Worse yet none of the help links in the app are
working on my phone so no help there.

Thanks for all the help guys.

As far as future screenshots if you can capture higher
TFT temps in the 150-180 range with a picture of your
gauge. That range is the most important temps to get
right since preventing overheating is the goal.

The IAT Poly should be within +/- 3 degrees.

For EBP:

If you are using the -2.85 I suggested earlier suggest
changing to -3.25.

Edit:

If I remember correctly you have a way to compare
the pedal numbers against another standard.

Can you compare the numbers since the true
voltage for MJs truck was unknown and expected
values were used?

The two byte equation given will give greater
resolution than the single byte equation.

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2917
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 5, 2014 (GMT)

Quote from aawlberninf350 on March 2, 2014
Quote from Capp777 on March 1, 2014

MJ:

Have you tried google searching
“percent delta cylinder” for info?

LOL… I am not sure what those pids actually
mean!

Just FYI and general 7.3 background:

PERDELS is also called a cylinder contribution test. In a nutshell it measures the rotational velocity of the crank at idle and how much each cylinder contributes. A bad injector will add less velocity than the others (that’s the delta) and helps you ID the cuplrit.

Great thread btw! Kudos!

And I’ll throw this out: the Holy Grail of 7.3 tests is the “buzz test”. It fires all injectors simultaneously, then for a second each in numerical order. This tests the electrical side of the injectors. Weak or dead ones are easy to spot. But that’s an active manipulation of the PCM rather than a passive recording of data, so maybe it is not possible?

MJ – mind if I grab a copy of your PID excel file from photobucket?

End Quote.

Will the PERDELs pids show meaningful data without
running the cylinder contribution test first?

Is my understanding correct for these tests…

Ecu executes diagnostic test per an OBD command.
(Diagnostic Start command).

Perform any actions required during test.

Scan tool loop checks to see when/if the test has finished.
(Mode/Pid).

Stop executing diagnostic test per an OBD command.
(Diagnostic Stop command).

After test completes report number of diagnostic dtcs
and decode those found. (Mode/Pid).

m j
Member
Posts: 92
Post Re: Trans temp, IAT, and MAP
on: March 5, 2014 (GMT)

I think the CCT is the resultant of looking at perdels, havent looked at it much as the CCT is very common to fail to the point it isnt trusted much but the perdel is the actual % number

someone with AE will have to answer that properly I think as I havent looked at a fancier scan on this truck and I never used CCT on my 4.6

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