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Torque » Torque OBD ECU Scanner » Torque Discussion / Ideas » Transmission Temp Issue

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Author Topic: Transmission Temp Issue
piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 15, 2016 (GMT)

Hi

Just to make sure everyone is using the correct version, it’s worth mentioning that the tester present (start diagnostic command) was broken in older versions of Torque.

This was fixed in the current version in Google Play. If you’re not using the latest version from google play (where updates are always free) then it’s likely you will have problems with transmission temperatures on vehicles that require a start diagnostic command to be sent

If you’re still having problems after upgrading, try the ‘Disable ELM327 auto timing’ option in the settings. This will change some timeout settings on the adapter which may also improve things (feedback on how many people this fixes the issue with will be appreciated!)

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2978
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 15, 2016 (GMT)

Thanks Ian,

I think this problem is likely caused by not
issueing the tester present command.

He gets data back when using Torquescan
but not when testing his custom pid.

Would you happen to know the tester present
command for VPW protocol? I saw in one of
your Jeep thread postings you mentioned
3E/3F as possibilities?

You are obviously using the correct one in
Torquescan for it to be returning data.

Any thoughts?

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 15, 2016 (GMT)

Hi

TorqueScan is simply a ‘display’ for showing all the available sensor at once, in a list – it doesn’t issue any commands other than telling torque it is interested in data (therefore the display is then polled)

It’s the same interaction as the ‘realtime information’ part of the app. It’s likely he has a PID somewhere which isn’t normally being requested, that contains the correct ‘tester present’ pid for his vehicle in the diagnostic start command somewhere (he may have also setup a PID as a ‘tester present PID’ and it’s not being polled until he goes into the scan plugin)

I’d check the PIDs that he’s got setup. It’s likely there’s a tester present command in there somewhere and that’s the bit that’ll need to be stuck into the ‘diagnostic start command’ part for the PID he’s interested in

The timing adjust thing I mentioned may also be relevant, as the adapters only wait a set time for some responses (enabling faster comms tunes that further). Normally it shouldn’t be a problem but I suspect some of the clones aren’t great in this area and for a number of users (less than 4 as I don’t get that much feedback) this appears to have been a factor, particularly when requesting data from a different ECU, so it’s worth bearing in mind as well if there’s a situation where you’re not getting data when you suspect you should be – a user in an adjacent thread reminded me of this

cintakc
Member
Posts: 1602
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 15, 2016 (GMT)

Quote from Capp777 on August 15, 2016
Would you happen to know the tester present
command for VPW protocol? I saw in one of
your Jeep thread postings you mentioned
3E/3F as possibilities?

tester present command
3e
3e00
3e01
3e02

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 15, 2016 (GMT)

If you put ‘3e’ into the start diagnostic command part of all your PIDs that need it (or 3e01/etc) then the app will automatically know that it needs to re-send it every 3 seconds) and will handle all this automagically for you (but each PID that needs the 3E command must have it in the startDiagnostic part)

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 16, 2016 (GMT)

Once again, I have to thank everyone for the help and information.
With the info from the last few messages I did the following.

Un-installed the app and re-installed to make sure I had the most recent version.

Edited the PID for 221940 (GM1 Method) and added the Diagnostic start commands with the following results:

3E Start Diagnostic Response: 6CF1187F3E11F1
3E00 Start Diagnostic Response: 6CF1187F3E001171
3E01 Start Diagnostic Response: 6CF1187F3E01113D
3E02 Start Diagnostic Response: 6CF1187F3E0211E9

Then tried the “Disable ELM327 auto timing…..” setting, then ran the same tests as above with no responses at all.

Removed the “Disable ELM327 auto timing…” setting and the next run for 3E thru 3E02 returned the same as initially above.

I sent the Scan results to myself (had to stop the scan shortly after the 221940 PID as Torque doesn’t want to send an email with a full scan.

With that data I put together a quick spreadsheet to extrapolate the data returned. Tried looking for anything that might be a ‘tester present’ trigger – nothing stands out so far.

With the 3E thru 3E02 Diagnostics Start Commands – each returned a “Result for equation” of 24.0 about every 3 or 4 tests with [No Data] being returned otherwise.

Not sure if I am making progress or not at this point. :)

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 16, 2016 (GMT)

Hi!

You are making progress – I’ll need a debug so I can see what’s going on further, then will release a beta if I can see anything

For extra info, can you tell me:

* If you are using the custom init stuff in the vehicle profile at all (it’s an advanced option so if you see no yellow options in there then its unlikely you’re using it)

It looks like there is an extra response there that shouldn’t be, and a fresh debug will be really helpful – if you have the time, can you:

* Go into the app ‘general’ settings, enable debugging, and then restart the app

* Connect and attempt to see the PID again in the ‘realtime information’ screen

After a few seconds, and it works(or doesn’t or intermittently does display data) then press menu, send debugging information, and in the box that pops up type ‘transmission’ and your forum name (so I can locate the debug) and then press send. (please put the default GM Method 2 display on the screen and do what you did to get it to momentarily show different values by swiping screens, waiting 10 seconds then swiping back)

I’ll get the debug here and then see what’s up as it appears to be a bit of an interesting one and shouldn’t be doing what you’ve described in your last post (basically it’s parsing the 3E response when it shouldn’t be)

On a side note, the 3E response that was received, was a ‘7F’ (negative) response indicating that basically, the ‘computer says no’ to that request (then it says ‘3E (the command) 00 (the option) and usually a reason code for why it was denied, which in this case was 11 (mode not supported)

This means the correct request may simply be ‘3F’ for your vehicle not 3E (which iirc is chrysler specific). Bear in mind that 3E/3F modes put the ECU into a specific mode so make sure it’s safe to do so.

IIRC most GM vehicles don’t need this to be sent to get transmission temperatures (though ones with toyota transmissions in may need a specific request)

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2978
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 16, 2016 (GMT)

In my quest for answers several sites
mentioned 3F for vpw protocol but I’m
unable to test on my vehicle to confirm
this as fact.

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 18, 2016 (GMT)

I won’t be able to test this until this weekend, but will get that debug to you as soon as possible.

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: August 31, 2016 (GMT)

Still haven’t had time to test as mentioned above, hopefully this coming weekend.

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 6, 2017 (GMT)

Kind of lost track of this issue as I have not been using the scanner for quite a while. Headed out Saturday morning for a longer trip and had a check engine light to clear so left the adapter in and let it run.
Be darned if I wasn’t getting Tranny temps displayed that looked ‘realistic’. I figured there must have been an upgrade to Torque that fixed things – I was pretty stoked that it was working.

Headed back home this morning and fired up Torque – only to find that once again the tranny temp was reading 75.2 degrees and never changed over the 160+ mile trip back home.

Getting ready to order a OBDLink MX Bluetooth adapter to see if it might just be an adapter issue with the cheaper one I have been using. The LX is mentioned on the list of adapters for Torque so I am hoping it will clear up the issues and I will be able to get reliable transmission temps.

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 9, 2017 (GMT)

Got the OBDLink MX in the mail today. Fired it up and connected with Torque, ran through most of the tests previously discussed.

Same issues as before. I have 7 PIDs I am trying now. Standard1, Standard2, GM Method 1, GM Method 2 (and from a new add of PIDs) GM Method1, GM Method2 and GM Method3.

Only readings I get is either 75.2F or 24.0F.

I’m kinda stumped.

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 437
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 9, 2017 (GMT)

@MTRoads – A couple of points … (FWIW only. Engineer or OBDII Expert cannot be found anywhere in my Resume).

Two ‘subtle’ points that I have learned from an enormous effort trying to identify TorqueScan PIDs on my “FORD F150 5.4L” that might provide some help in your situation.

Of course FORD info is of NO VALUE in your case, but while researching mine, I have occasionally stumbled upon GM information.

In ONE such instance – it caught my eye on the “ScanGauge website”, ( https://www.scangauge.com/x-gauge-commands/gm-specific-cansf/ ), they show the Header to be 07E2 on the Allison Trans Fluid Temp (5-Speed) PID. ALL others in that list show header in their TXD msg. to be 07E0 —- which I am familiar with. COULD be a simple type-O-, but the difference is subtle and could be significant. I admit I do not have full understanding of the various headers.

I have NO IDEA if this would make a difference, but do know it is VERY EASY to test with Torque. You might try that.

—ALSO—

On my FORD, – I learned that under CERTAIN (“non safety related”) SITUATIONS, The PCM can ‘substitute’ a value into a PID to keep the vehicle operating and running in what FORD calls “FMEM Mode” (Failure Mode Engine Management). I have identified ONE PID (1107 – not that that applies to your GM) that consists of eight FLAG BITS indicating certain systems are currently operating in FMEM Mode. This byte should ALWAYS BE ZERO – or Trans, Cam Position sensor, Output Shaft Speed sensor or something is in failure mode. I have identified only ‘certain’ bits, but one System identified in this byte is “TFTFM” Transmission Oil Temperature Sensor failure (MFEM) mode.

You have indicated a constant reading of 75.2. If Celsius, that would be 167.36 degrees – not an entirely ridiculous reading and perhaps a constant stuffed by the PCM if the ‘Sensor’ is NOT WORKING AT ALL. ???

You have also indicated the other GM Methods read ‘0’ or a dash. Could those methods be Trans Fluid Temp sensor VOLTS? – (Which actual PID# is unknown to me). But perhaps there is zero volts from the sensor and the PCM is operating in the “non safety related’ failure mode TFTFM as it appears my vehicle might do.

JUST my 2 cents worth.

——————

54371019

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 10, 2017 (GMT)

@F-150Torqued, thanks for the link and info.
I have a 2004-1/2 LLY 2500HD, so it uses VPW rather than CANSF. I did look at the link you provided and it gave me a few ideas to try later today.

I currently have 7 displays for transmission fluid temperature
that I was going to list the display reading – then I realized that probably would not be worth anything without the PID and Header (and any other items) that were set up for each display.

After some tests today I’ll see about listing all that info.

Thanks.

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 10, 2017 (GMT)

I think we have success with the 2004-1/2 2500HD LLY/Allison 5-sp transmission.

I’m in the process of documenting what I did and will either add to this post once I get it all together or will start another reply.

I’m stoked – been trying to figure this out for months. :)

Ok, previous posts have identified a lot of the previous indications and settings I have tried. All the help was greatly appreciated, but nothing seemed to fix the problem of either invalid (or none at all) display of transmission fluid temperature.

I did about 7 hours of googling between last night and this morning and came across one post of interest here.

http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/general-discussion/159430-torque-pro-app-now-has-dmax-inj-bal-rates-4.html

The item of interest being adding “atz” (without quotes) in the ‘Very Advanced – ELM27 custom configuration’ in the vehicle profile being used.

I jotted down a note about it and spent another hour or so continuing with the search for a solution.

Had to run out to do an errand a little bit ago so grabbed my phone and headed out to the truck. Truck sat idling in the driveway for about 10 minutes while I got all the snow/ice off of it, I got in – paired up Torque with the OBDLink MX and checked things.

Ok – still not working – kind of what I expected. Grabbed my notebook with all the notes of things to check and the “atz” above looked like a quick one to change so I set it up.

Went back to check the displays – and things looked different than they had before. No more 72.5F readings. Took off and drove about 2 miles to the first place I had to stop and checked the displays again – results below.


This looked pretty reasonable (strange – image is not showing up here – but a right-click will take you to it) for the amount of time the truck had been running.
If you don’t want to click on the image – the transmission temp was 71.6°F, engine temp was 116.6°F.

Note: Ambient temp was about 30 while this was going on.

I left my first stop and ended up driving about 10 miles before I got home with this result.


Without clicking the image:
Transmission Temp: 113.0°F
Engine Temp: 145.4°F

The transmission temp gauge in the instrument cluster had just barely started coming off it’s resting point and registering – so I’d say the Torque reading is reasonable.

Engine temp gauge in the instrument cluster indicated about 185° – but that is the reason I wanted to set up Torque, I have been wondering about the validity of the gauge readings for a while.

So…. it appears that the “atz” setting fixed my issues. But as one last test – I turned the truck off and put my original OBDII reader in the port (one of the 15-dollar ELM327 knock-offs) and fired things back up. With that reader in place – same indications as without the “atz” setting.

For now – it appears this fix only works with my OBDLink MX reader.

I am going to set up Torque Pro on a Kindle Fire 7″ tablet that I have laying around – will document the exact steps taken to get things working and post it here.

Sure hope this helps anyone else having this issue reading transmission temperatures.

NOTE: The correct reading was with the Transmission Fluid Temp (GM Method 1) – which I just looked for on the Fire tablet and it is appears to no longer be available.

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 11, 2017 (GMT)

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Took a longer trip today after finding the ‘atz’ information. Seems that gets transmission fluid temp working – but keeps a number of other PIDs from working properly.

Engine coolant temp, Engine oil temp, RPM etc.

More research needed. :(

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 437
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 11, 2017 (GMT)

@MTRoads I hope Capp777 or someone with more good ole fashion ‘know how’ that I have will chime in here and give you some guidance. You may recall from my post the other day that “Engineer or OBDII Expert” cannot be found anywhere in my Resume. But “ATZ” is a Reset command. I am pretty sure there are some “AT” commands necessary to get the dongle communications (speed / data length in bits / start-stop bits – etc) set up and working correctly with Torque Pro. At least an ATE1 (echo command). You need to know the ones needed and the additional ones that make your TFT work and string them together. But ATZ just clears ALL them out – as I understand it.

Maybe you could put ATZ in the “Diagnostic Start Command” in your TFT def., and put the required string in the “Diagnostic END command” —– IDK

Always – Wishing the Best!

—————-

54371019

MTRoads
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 11, 2017 (GMT)

@F-150Torqued,
Willing to give anything a try at this point. Will try a few different settings tomorrow and see what happens. Getting closer with each step – but I want to get a majority of the things I want to monitor all working together. And be sure I am getting reliable readings.
The engine coolant display has me a bit concerned now, I don’t know which is off – the instrument panel gauge, or Torque. The Torque display seems to be indicating about 40-50 degrees lower than the gauge does.

Capp777
Member
Posts: 2978
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 12, 2017 (GMT)

I would be curious what the raw hex
response for TFT is showing. Could you
post it?

Have you tried TFT pid using header 6C18F1
if your protocol is VPW?

Edited.

F-150Torqued
Member
Posts: 437
Post Re: Transmission Temp Issue
on: March 12, 2017 (GMT)

I would ALSO be curious to see what formula you are using.

I was noticing a post on page 2, (this thread), showed some raw responses. But what was being done with the raw data makes no sense. In that post, raw data appears as: ——”

1st scan: 221940 = 6CF1186219403C4D
2nd scan: 221940 = 6CF1186219404F33″

Then this appears: —–”

3C = 20°C = 68°F
4F = 39°C = 102°F

———-”

None of that equals! “3C” Hex would under that scenario be 60 Decimal Degrees C. That would not be 68ºF, but rather 140ºF – (Not an unreasonable reading at all).

Then there is 4F, which is 79 Degrees C, not 39. That would be 174ºF. (Again, not at all unreasonable although perhaps a little high.) But in your most recent post you mention “The Torque display seems to be indicating about 40-50 degrees lower than the gauge does.”

I’m not familiar with the headers you were experimenting with, and not sure about parsing the full response – but was curious about ignoring the last byte. Is that a checksum, or is it a two byte response where the formula should include it, ie: (A*256+B)etc or Signed(A)*256+B, etc? ONE reason I am curious about that is – My FORD TFT has a range of -40 degrees to 302 degrees. That range could NOT be represented in a single byte. ???????

———–

54371019

EDIT: Or if the 40 degree offset (to accommodate -40 to 215) is applied after the conversion to ºF, you’d have around 100 and 134 degrees – depending on what your formula looked like.
Then the 40 Degrees could be offset (as -28 in the raw Hex Data) and crammed into one byte. But that all calls for -what does your formula look like?)

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