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Torque » Torque OBD ECU Scanner » Torque Discussion / Ideas » The key to getting more PIDs working

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Author Topic: The key to getting more PIDs working
djturnz
Member
Posts: 32
Post The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 13, 2012 (GMT)

Is the key to identifying more of the extended PIDs simply getting a list of each code and what sensor it corresponds too?

Does that info have to come from the Factory or a Technician or some manual somewhere?

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 13, 2012 (GMT)

Hi!

It should be possible to find out the information from a techincal/service manual if you have access to such things, failing that you have to scan the PIDs, change a sensor, scan again, work out what’s changed, check it’s the right value and then begin the long process of working out the formula/maths manually (not a quick process!)

z900
Member
Posts: 25
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 26, 2012 (GMT)

Hi,

Really like to see a howto, especcially the format with examples.

silent_tiger85
Member
Posts: 10
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 27, 2012 (GMT)

piemmm,

Have you considered getting a membership to Equipment & Tool Institute? This might make it easier to add more extended pids.

Full Membership FAQ:
http://www.etools.org/Default.aspx?pageId=450856

TEK-NET Library:
http://www.etools.org/Default.aspx?pageId=451975

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 27, 2012 (GMT)

Unfortunately the license terms in ETI are extremely restrictive it would have a detrimental effect on the app (not to mention other hidden costs – for example, it’s an extra 2.5K for scantool providers, and you still have to pay things like 17K for BMW’s information, 50K for GM, and so on)

silent_tiger85
Member
Posts: 10
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 27, 2012 (GMT)

Quote from admin on January 27, 2012
Unfortunately the license terms in ETI are extremely restrictive it would have a detrimental effect on the app (not to mention other hidden costs – for example, it’s an extra 2.5K for scantool providers, and you still have to pay things like 17K for BMW’s information, 50K for GM, and so on)

How would it have a detrimental effect on the app?

I think you only have to pay the extra 2.5K if you wish to belong to the scan tool group, but I do not think it is required.

If you join ETI, I think you only have access to manufactures data that is included in the library. It would be a smart idea to work out the pids by trial and error instead of paying BMW 17K and GM 50K for their licenses.

5K seems like a reasonable price for all the data you gain access too. It might be worth it considering all the time you save by figuring out the pids by trial and error. You could setup a donation page and torque members could help you cover the cost of a one year membership.

Just something to think about. I do not know how time consuming it is to figure out the pids.

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 27, 2012 (GMT)

The 2.5k is mandatory if you’re making scantools (which I imagine torque might be classed as) due to their site mentioning it is to help the support calls

According to the T&C’s would limit the distribution of Torque to the US only which doesn’t fit in with me wanting eveyone to have access to it. It would also effectively limit the free app as well (and potentially kill it) which I’m not prepared to let happen

Working out the PIDs by trial and error isn’t difficult, but it takes some time. I plan to improve the TorqueScan plugin in the next month to be more adept at monitoring individual sensors (and thus will be more helpful in working out PIDs) I’m also going to be improving the wiki pages to this end as well, so others can help out if they want (or to be more helpful with information on how to do this with examples), however I’m moving house in a couple of days so it won’t happen straight away :-)

johndoe
Member
Posts: 19
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

Hello Everyone, I can give Torque a huge bump with amount of information I can reverse engineer. I will not go into details how I do it. I am all for open source and I want to see some changes in the scantool industry. I really hate greed and greed is destroying our world. The question is what is Torque going to do with the pricing when I release a huge amount of information I have. It will take some time to document them.

Please do not ask me how I do it.

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

You could make the information publically available on your site – people can add PIDs to the free version as well as the paid, so from that standpoint the app is pretty neutral

The full version can import CSV files with PID information (or you can create a plugin on the android market to supply PIDs to the app as well, free or paid is entirely up to you)

MercedesGLK
Member
Posts: 67
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

Hi JonDoe.

I’m very interested in the PIDs for the Mercedes GLK (X204). If you could deliver them would be nice. If necessary I would pay for it.

If you are interested, EMail me

johndoe
Member
Posts: 19
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

I can do Ford first. Powertrain, Airbag, ABS, Traction Control, Fuel Control, Driver Door, Light Control, Rear Air Suspension and etc will be on the list. Way too much work for one individual. General Motors, too. I have not looked into Mercedes, sorry. I will start with the easy ones I can do. There is other Manufacturer specifics that I can do for you guys, too.

Airbag samples

Voltage: 6458F1 22D102
P/S Resistance ECS: 6458F1 225911
D/S Resistance IABM: 6458F1 225900
———————————-
Light Control samples

Light Intensity: 6470F1 22D15
Wiper Motor Status: 6470F1 22A445: #4 byte bit5 Active
———————————-

many, many more……

I do have scaling and units. These data took me 4 minutes to extract and document.

So 1 pid per minute. 10000 pids * 1 = 10000 minutes
10000/60 = 166 hours or 7 days!!! I can only spend couple hours a week. You see the problem.

johndoe
Member
Posts: 19
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

Quote from admin on January 28, 2012
You could make the information publically available on your site – people can add PIDs to the free version as well as the paid, so from that standpoint the app is pretty neutral

The full version can import CSV files with PID information (or you can create a plugin on the android market to supply PIDs to the app as well, free or paid is entirely up to you)

How does the plugin work? Does it require Java programming?

Torque_Kid
Member
Posts: 38
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

some pid data can only be deciphered by the manufacturer. you can read the data but really have no idea what it means. some of these proprietary pid’s may be documented while others are not. other pid’s may be hidden, meaning you have to ask for it, and even if you get the return data you may not be able to decipher it, etc.

for toyota you may be able to find pid info via TIS (just search google for “toyota tis”). for just (used to be ) you can get “full” 1-day access to tis. however, certified techs can get access to sections of tis that non-certified folks cannot.

imho, i think we should as buyers of vehicles have full access to all pid info, etc.

i am looking for a not so pricey CAN bus data logger, it simply logs everything that is on the CAN, etc.

johndoe
Member
Posts: 19
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

Torque-Kid your statement is somewhat incorrect. I posted above i have the Equations and units. It is not that difficult to decipher them. I have my ways.

johndoe
Member
Posts: 19
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

I am not in mood to do some extraction today. This took me 1 minute.

625911xx
xx = B4
P/S Resistance ECS: = B4 * .1

Torque_Kid
Member
Posts: 38
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 28, 2012 (GMT)

Quote from 355188040081550 on January 28, 2012
Torque-Kid your statement is somewhat incorrect. I posted above i have the Equations and units. It is not that difficult to decipher them. I have my ways.

my statement is true. i suspect the pid’s you are deciphering are those that are on the CAN. some proprietary pid’s can only seen when asked for. if you can decipher the “seen” proprietary pid’s that’s great, please post what you have and from what make/model/yr vehicle.

for others if they want to read some http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs#Bitwise_encoded_PIDs

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 29, 2012 (GMT)

Those look like proper OBD2 PIDs to me (mode 22), and look good!

The free pid plugin example app is on my desktop at the moment (currently in a box as I’m moving this week). I can send you the code (it’s written in java) if you want to have a play once I’ve finished moving house – it’s more or less configured for the PIDs to be dropped straight into it

The other alternative is to put them in a CSV formatted file (search for CSV in the forums for the posts (possibly in the changelog or wiki)) and drop them on the SD card (again an app could also do this, or a normal file manager)

I’ve been using ’62’ not ’64’ in the start of the header to try to talk to SRS modules – perhaps this is why I never received any responses when I spent a few hours on my smart roadster (mercedes/bosch ECU) :)

Torque_Kid
Member
Posts: 38
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 29, 2012 (GMT)

mode 21 is an additional mode used by Toyota, mode 22 is an SAE J2190 spec used by Ford/GM.

shouldnt request for any mode 00 return all of the supported pid’s for that mode?

0100
0200
0300
0400
.
.
.
0n00

wouldnt this give all of the pid’s available for the specific vehicle in question?

piemmm
Administrator
Posts: 6623
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 29, 2012 (GMT)

nope, that only applies to mode 1

johndoe
Member
Posts: 19
Post Re: The key to getting more PIDs working
on: January 29, 2012 (GMT)

Quote from admin on January 29, 2012
Those look like proper OBD2 PIDs to me (mode 22), and look good!

The free pid plugin example app is on my desktop at the moment (currently in a box as I’m moving this week). I can send you the code (it’s written in java) if you want to have a play once I’ve finished moving house – it’s more or less configured for the PIDs to be dropped straight into it

The other alternative is to put them in a CSV formatted file (search for CSV in the forums for the posts (possibly in the changelog or wiki)) and drop them on the SD card (again an app could also do this, or a normal file manager)

I’ve been using ’62’ not ’64’ in the start of the header to try to talk to SRS modules – perhaps this is why I never received any responses when I spent a few hours on my smart roadster (mercedes/bosch ECU) :)

Thanks. I like to look it the plugin. email it when you have the chance. I am not a java expert, but if I can drop in some pids and compile it sounds pretty easy to me. Headers should be configurable.

I have never looked into Roadster. From my understanding, many Asian and German vehicles uses Iso9141 or kwp2000 on the older system. The header structure will differ from pwm ford.

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